Hehe, I like this idea. I've always been slightly annoyed at the concept that we need meditation because our minds are so cluttered and we need to quiet our thoughts in order be happy. If our minds are designed to think, the way our noses are supposed to smell and eyes see, then there is no reason to attempt the removal of thoughts in order to gain happiness, peace, or whatever is promised. Maybe by seeking to remove the thoughts we are actually attempting to deny our continued mental evolution? Since the mind was the last sense that we developed, we aren't really quite used to it yet. Perhaps the trick is not to quiet the mind, but instead to gain a better understanding of how those thoughts work, and to harness the power of them. Much like an athlete harnesses the inherent power of, and then builds on, the strengths of the muscles, rather than whining about the limitations of our bodies and then stop any attempts at improvement.

I agree, Renzo… in fact, my experience is that by examining and understanding how the mind is working, it's pretty common to get the benefits we thought would only come if we quieted it.

And, paradoxically, it then often tends to calm down

(all the techniques in the I AM Course start with understanding instead)

A perfect post, IMHO. One of my biggest stumbling blocks was the identification of 'mind' with 'myself'–a common enough fallacy as to be almost universal, I think.
e.g.–I have this horrible/forbidden/unacceptable thought therefore I must be a bad person, therefore I must panic and find a way to control these thoughts so that I can be a good person.
When watching or just witnessing thoughts becomes habitual and familiar, the judgemental aspects fall away and the function of thought becomes just another ephemeral sense.
I was reading another discussion on the TM thread about research and clinical studies–how would you design a study to measure this completely subjective shift in perception?
I'm not particularly interested in scientific proofs–the subjective benefits are sufficient for me–but I fail to see how this can be externally validated.
Which is not to say that we shouldn't try.

I would contend that even watching and witnessing is more effort than needed

Regarding studies… it depends on what you want to look at. If you want to see if there's a correlation between these shifts and some activity in the brain, well, then you get a whole bunch of people of varying backgrounds and put them in an fMRI (one at a time, of course), and when they experience "the shift," they indicate that by pressing a button… and then we look to see if the fMRI reports reveal some consistent pattern of activity.

You could even design a study to explore the long-term effects of reliably recreating these shifts… that gets much trickier, in part because, as I mention in the other post, you need to not only have good controls, but you need to have a group that tests to see if the shifts are REALLY the cause of any change.

That reminds me of a 65 year old monk who I heard talk about how the 40 years of meditation he's done has made him much calmer… uh… DUH! You're also older and more mature and haven't ever had to hold a real job or have relationship issues or family responsibilities.

Now, if you want to look at the "value" of having these shifts… well, then things get really complicated really fast.

'to see if the shifts are REALLY the cause of any change.'

Yes, which is sort of where I cannot make a distinction.
I can claim that my years of practice have produced results that I can subjectively feel but if I am honest, any changes in attitude may simply be the results of ageing and mellowing over time, the innumerable experiences of life, the ebb and flow of daily life wearing off some sharp edges.

After all these years I can make no claims at all with any integrity, beyond that I do it from choice and that it seems to suit me.

An MRI picture showing brain activity at a certain point in time is just showing brain activity, not necessarily any effect that activity is having on my experience of reality which is always going to be subjective.

BTW, I would agree with you now about the effort but 30 years ago I had many fixed ideas and grandiose imaginings–nothing short of gargantuan work and self-important effort would have seemed worthy of my quest!

Ah, the follies (and self-importance) of youth

Interesting post! When I take the moment to aware of what is really being asked here; I don't believe that I complain to my mind because in fact it is just doing what is is suppose to.

For me, I find that I get more frustrated as to what out there for the mind to think about. It is bombarded with marketing message of unhealthy food; violence from around the world to our our communities; sex, drugs & money.

I know it is my responsibility to beware of what I feed the mind; the frustration comes from it being sooooo much easier to come across the negative aspects of things verse things that are uplifting.

Now that you have presented the mind in this manner, I believe that it should be easier for me to realize why I'm thinking away and how to shift the though to something more peaceful.

Very interesting…

Hi Rasheed,

I'll be very interested in hearing what you discover!

Once we notice that thoughts (seemingly positive, or seemingly negative) are just what the mind does, then there's definitely some "extra space" to explore.

And, you may notice that the "seemingly negative" or "seemingly positive" thoughts aren't actually because of what's "out there," but a result of something else (hint, you may notice a subtle/quick thought prior to the negative/positive one).