Hi Steven -

First time visitor, really enjoying reading your posts. I identify with many of the challenges you discuss here and will be sure to come back frequently.

As for this post, I went to a TM center nearby my home and took the course (and paid the $$$). I knew that there were alternatives to doing this, but did so anyway for a couple of reasons:

- I wanted to learn the practice in an interactive way, not just from a book. I had read several books on meditation, and TM in particular, and knew that I was serious about incorporating the practice in my life. Still, as a novice, I wanted to be taken through the technique and be able to ask questions and discuss it as I learned. For me, that had value;

- I saw the fee as supporting the overall TM movement, and was okay with the idea that I was supporting various TM-related initiatives through my payment. It's sort of like making a $100 contribution to PBS, and getting a CD as a gift. The CD's not worth $100, but it's your takeaway for having contributed to the cause.

Anyway, please keep writing posts - I'm enjoying catching up on all your previous ones.

Thx -d

Hi Dan, and welcome to the site.

I can totally understand the value in a live class… that's why when I teach the I AM Course, in addition to the CD set, there are teleclasses and live classes with it. Even if they're not necessary, it sure adds a dose of security

Your PBS analogy is a fascinating one. I'm sure you're not the only person that was able to wrap their brain around the cost of TM by putting it in a different "mental bank account" than the one for "paying to learn meditation"

BTW, you may also enjoy http://www.anti-guru.com

More soon, I expect,
Steven

I’m sure some nice relaxation occurs by ‘tossing around’ a word like ‘one’ or whatever. But as a TM-meditator of almost 30 years, I can tell you that that is simply NOT Transcendental Meditation. This is fact: The powerful health benefits that have been documented by independent researchers at Harvard, Standford, Yale, UCLA Medical School, etc. and published by the American Medical Association, the American Heart Association, the International Journal of Neuroscience, etc., have only been proven with one technique: Transcendental Meditation. Other forms of relaxation, like the ones described in books, have NOT been shown to produce the coherence in brain functioning that is characteristic of TM. That increase in brainwave coherence is needed before one can gain all the fantastic health benefits. Transcendental Meditation is both powerful and delicate, and it needs the personal guidance of a trained teacher; it CANNOT be learned from a book or CD. I recommend http://www.doctorsontm.com/ for more information.

FWIW, Kay, 2 things:

1) Herbert Benson's (and many others') research on relaxation techniques, and on biofeedback and even therapy, show the same type of benefits. For example one study showed that TM helped prevent the recurrence of depression… but another study showed TWICE as large an effect from a once-a-month group therapy treatment. While I commend the TM community for it's desire to scientifically validate its claims, unfortunately, many of the TM studies were quite poorly designed (no controls or bad controls, for example). And some of the "powerful" effects were barely statistically significant (e.g. which would you rather do: meditate for 20 minutes twice a day to lower your blood pressure by 5 points, or take a pill that lowers it 20).

BTW, "coherence in brain functioning" is not a scientifically meaningful term. "Brainwave coherence" is easily reproduced by experienced biofeedback practitioners (in fact, they can do many things that meditators cannot do). And there's no clear-cut answer as to whether any changes in brain activity are the CAUSE or the EFFECT related to any other physiological changes.

2) The "toss the word" analogy I used came from someone who has been teaching TM for 40 years. He uses is it to point out how mantra meditation doesn't mean EFFORTING to fix the mantra in the mind. I'm not suggesting that the technique above (which, BTW, is not part of the I AM Course) is TM.

Oh, a bonus third thing:

3) LEARNING a meditation technique does not *require* a trained teacher. While a teacher may be helpful, the instructions are simple enough that they can be followed by listening to an audio tape and solo practice. Also, I know perhaps a hundred TM meditators who have never interacted with anyone in the TM community since their initial instruction.

One thing the TM community seems to do, like MOST meditation communities, is maintain a mythology that keeps people coming back and committing to the practice. For example in the Vipassana community surrounding S.N. Goenka, they suggest that your practice will be harmed by meditating with people who do some other form of practice. There's no evidence for this whatsoever, but it does create a nice insular group.

I appreciate your comments, Kay. As you may have gathered, one of my interests is to do — as best as possible — what the Buddha ostensibly said as his last teaching (we have no idea what he really said, since his teachings weren't written down until 500 years after his death, but anyway…), namely, not to simply believe something because it's written in scriptures or taught by revered teachers.

And, in the West, sometimes the "revered teachers" are scientists. Rarely do we critically look at the work of scientists, whom we often assume are smarter than the average bear (you get over that idea if you're a pre-med in college and live with the people who later become those scientists). In fact, most of us don't know how to carefully examine a scientific study and determine whether it has problems.

I'm not a researcher by nature. But since the people who believe TM is the greatest thing since sliced tofu almost always have a (TM-endorsed) URL to ostensibly back up their claims, I thought I'd at least toss out one URL of my own — http://minet.org/Documents/research.1977.pollack-etal. This is a study that showed NO effect on blood pressure for 20 TM practitioners over a 6 month period.

Now, two points about this:

1) I don't know if this study is any better designed that the TM-sponsored studies that show an effect on blood pressure.

2) Again, my point is not to bash TM, but to encourage clear, rational, and analytic thinking in a domain (meditation) that has demonstrated a lack thereof (in part because many of the researchers have a bias toward proving the effects of meditation, rather than designing studies to check IF there are reliable, reproducible effects).

I find your post extremely misleading. You tell people that they can learn Transcendental Meditation “for less”, and then proceed to describe your own brand of meditation. Transcendental Meditation is a registered trademark, and can only be used to describe a specific technique taught by a registered TM teacher in a very specific way. It also provides countless hours of free personalized follow up and checking, Any thing else is not TM and it is certainly unethical, if not illegal, to characterize it as such. If you wish to maintain your post I would recommend you remove the words “Transcendental Meditation” from it.

Hi Cat,

Thanks for your suggestion.

Transcendental Meditation is a form of mantra meditation. It has been described and detailed in many books and on many websites (one of the books, in fact, is called "Everything You Want to Know About TM — Including How to Do It") . Neither the technique itself nor the instruction is magical, nor does it require a "registered teacher" to learn something that will benefit you. What I describe is consistent with what's been offered in those books and on those websites, many of them written by former TM teachers. The follow-up and checking component is an adjunct to the technique proper. (Enough people have brought up the "checking" thing that I'm going to have to do a post about it. But, anyway…)

Your post reminds me of the mortified response that came from Fairfield, Iowa (U.S. home of the TM movement, for those who don't know) when Herbert Benson's book came out (offering a similar technique and demystifying the need for a mantra), and when Deepak Chopra started, essentially, teaching TM under his own brand name (at least that was the complaint).

One point of this post is merely to highlight how meditation is not some secretive, mysterious, proprietary thing.

In fact, one friend of mine, a guy who is possibly the first Western meditation teacher (who helped introduce TM to the U.S. and then left the organization as well as the practice for a particular Buddhist lineage), suggests that meditation is actually a bastardization of a natural healing response. That is, when we're injured, he suggests, there is a natural turning of the attention to the pain, a redirection of focused awareness that accelerates healing (if you allow yourself to do it, rather than do what we've mostly been taught — to try to make it go away). He suggests that all forms of meditation are a contrived way to reproduce a similar type of attentional shift.

FWIW, "Transcendental Meditation" is a registered trademark, but the mark is NOT for a particular technique of meditation (because you can't trademark a process, you have a mark that's associated WITH what you're teaching… in fact, you can change what you're teaching and still keep the same mark for the new technique). The mark is for use with: "EDUCATIONAL SERVICES-NAMELY, CONDUCTING COURSES AND SEMINARS ON PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT." And, for people who find things like this interesting, here's the registration info: (REGISTRANT) WORLD PLAN EXECUTIVE COUNCIL-UNITED STATES NON-PROFIT CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 17310 SUNSET BLVD. PACIFIC PALISADES CALIFORNIA 90272, (LAST LISTED OWNER) MAHARISHI FOUNDATION, LTD. CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF UNITED KINGDOM P.O. BOX 652 ST. HELIER JERSEY JE4 8YZ CHANNEL ISLANDS

Another FWIW: If there's anyone following this thread who isn't a TM practitioner, and who wants to check out what all the fuss is about, you may enjoy this site: Secrets of TM revealed by a former TM teacher… or this one about the Scientific Proof for Transcendental Meditation (again, please remember that MOST of the meditation research suffers the problems described on that page, not just the TM research)

Steve,
What you say about TM being a bastardization of a natural healing response interests me…would you mind expanding on that? (Is the friend you refer to Robert Hover?)
Bob

Hey, Bob.

It *is* Robert Hover, but Robert never singled out TM. His take is that any type of formal meditation is a way of artificially recreating what occurs naturally when we're injured. That is, when we get hurt, our attention naturally focuses (with greater intensity) allowing the body to engage in a process that accelerates healing. Meditation is designed, he said, to simulate that process (with a difference being that by developing concentration, we're able to tolerate pain more easily).

There's more info about this at http://www.imhealing.com

Steve, I'm familiar with Hover's work. I think it's based on the idea that attention tends to go where it is needed, and where attention goes, energy follows (see http://www.healself.org). i have done TM, but never really understood it. They teach that "the mind tends to move in the direction of greater happiness." It just needs the appropriate object (TM mantra). However, I have always found that my mind tended to move toward discomfort (where attention is needed). Maybe greater happiness lies beneath the discomfort that needs to be attended to (and dissolved?)…what do you think?
Bob

Actually, Bob, Hover's work is about deliberately moving attention in order to create specific effects, not just that "it moves." And he doesn't think that "energy follows." As a former aerospace engineer, he has definite opinions about what "energy means
In fact, he doesn't even say that you're moving your "attention." It's a bit more subtle/complex than that. He thinks that pain is a type of "faint matter" that we don't know how to detect with instruments. And that when pain arises it naturally catches and amplifies your ability to "direct the life force" (sadly, that language is a bit loaded) in a way that accelerates healing.

I think both perspectives have merit. On the one hand, we do tend toward what makes us happier and what's pleasant. On the other hand, we are, thankfully, hyper attentive to what hurts… because if we weren't, we wouldn't attend to things that could be injurious. And, clearly, the elimination of pain leads to a particular form of comfort.

Your questions and investigations reminded me that today is Robert's birthday, so I just called him… and discovered that he passed away about 2 months ago somewhat suddenly (as suddenly as it can be when you're almost 87). Happily, his son, Craig, is collecting Robert's writings, recordings, etc. and has some interesting plans for them.

HI Steven, I hve been searching for TM instructions and found your website.IT is really useful and thanks for all the aditional links.
I also think that the technique itself cannot be patented and noone should make SUCH money on something that has been followed for decades.

Thanks again

True… you can't patent a set of instructions, nor can you copyright or trademark them (you copyright printed material; you trademark names, logos, etc.).

Now, I don't know if what I'm about to write is true. It was told to me by a reliable source, so here it is:

I was told that the film director, David Lynch, who is evangelical in his support of TM (he's paid millions to help get TM taught in elementary schools), paid $1,000,000 to spend a week meditating with the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. This was months before the Maharishi died, and by "meditating with" I mean: sitting in a room, a few times a day, where the Maharishi was reported to be sitting. And I say "reported to be sitting" because the Maharishi would be sitting behind a screen… so there would be no way to know if he was even there or not.

I was also told that, at the last minute, Lynch pulled out.

Steven:
I recently recieved an email regarding an inquiry I made a year ago to our local NJ TM center. Nearly fell off my chair when presented with the discounted rates for a couple. The money however is not the issue but rather the principle behind it.
That caused me to begin searching other alternatives bringing be here.
After reading your posts I am once again
encouraged to begin meditating in earnest. I would also like to compliment you on your ability and knowledge respecting meditation and defending against those who wish to over complicate the seemingly simple search for serenity.
Keep it going!

Hi William,

Thanks for the compliment and welcome to MeditationTruth.com

In no other arena that I can think of, other than the meditation world, is so much wrapped up in pricing/value.

I have a friend who attended many Vipassana courses where the entire 10-day program was offered "by donation." He routinely paid $50 or less, saying to himself, "This is as much as I can afford at the moment."

Years later he realized that, no, he could have given more money, but the reality was that he didn't value what he got at more than $50. In fact, he felt that they owed him, in some way, for his attendance… or that he would pay $50, because, "How dare they ask for more?!"

What he never knew, of course, was that the only reason this center was able to use the donation-based pricing policy was: a) The teacher was wealthy and he and his work were supported by his wealthy family; b) There were a handful of trust fund babies who also supported the center, and; c) They were relying on the law of large numbers… that is, if enough people show up for the 10-day meditation course, the odds are good that one person will have a powerful enough experience and have enough money to make a donation that pays for all the freeloaders.

Then there are the meditators who have the idea that "this should all be given away for free" who don't realize that the places where that seemed to happen were cultures where everyone in a community believed (and acted on their belief) that you're supposed to support the meditation teacher and, so, made large donations (large enough to allow the teacher to never worry about food, shelter or money).

And then there's the gang that jacks up the price of teaching to an astronomical level which makes many students think "Well it MUST be good if it's that expensive!" and set themselves up for a massive dose of placebo effect (if they pay a LOT of money, they'll make sure they have a good experience — or rationalize that they have — so that they "get their money's worth."

The challenge is simply that in ALL financial transactions, we're making an arbitrary assignment of value to whatever we're purchasing. A gallon of gas doesn't COST $3 (or whatever it happens to be today). We actively (though rarely deliberately) DECIDE whether the value we'll get from that gas is equal to, greater than, or less than $3… and then we buy it or not, depending on our answer.

For whatever reason, it's easier to make those sorts of decisions about tangible things. But once we're asked to engage in that same valuation process about something non-tangible, like a feeling, or an imagined future, the arbitrariness is so obvious that it can set us into a tailspin.

Unfortunately, your "basic instructions" on TM are incorrect. That is, not a little incorrect, a lot incorrect. As a result, your post, unwittingly, ends up being evidence that if you want to experience all the benefits of TM, you'd better learn TM from a qualified teacher. I know you say that you got these instructions from a teacher of tm but all I can say is he/she gave you incorrect instructions. I don't doubt anyone's sincerity but incorrect is incorrect. Readers beware.

Hi Jean,

There are now dozens of books and websites that have published TM instructions. The instructions have changed somewhat over the years that TM has been taught. But if one looks at http://www.trancenet.net/secrets/checking/steps.shtml, you'll see the instructions above are, essentially similar in nature with what was, literally, the handbook for teaching TM at one point. But again, I'm not saying that I'm teaching TM, since I'm not.

And "essentially" is a critical word. What I say above isn't the same as the instruction to repeat the mantra out loud, then get quieter and quieter, and then repeat it only mentally. But it is consistent with this quote, taken from a TM teaching manual: "We don't concentrate. We don't control the mind. Just think the mantra easily, effortlessly. And if at any time you seem to be forgetting the mantra, don't try to hold on. Let it go. If a thought comes, easily come back to the mantra."

The idea that you'll get some dramatically different benefits through different instructions for basic mantra meditation (i.e. silent repetition of a word/phrase), is not substantiated by any research, nor by the fact that each lineage that practices mantra meditation claims their way is the best and only way. This same argument came up when Herbert Benson published The Relaxation Response — the TM community got upset and said, "But that's not how we do it!" And Benson's response was, basically, "Yeah, but the way I'm describing it simply gets rid of the mythology and, according to our testing, works just as well."

I've noticed that people who don't have experience with many meditation practices, lineages and teachers, elevate the specifics of their practice (and lineage, and teacher) and believe (because they've been told) that their particular method of practice is the best.

BTW, this is a question that's not directed at anyone in particular, but something that's been in the back of my mind until right now…

The posts I've made about TM have gotten the most response, typically critical from TM people, and appreciative from non-TM people.

But what I wonder is this: How and why are TM practitioners getting to these posts? I know the search terms that everyone has used — variations of "free transcendental meditation instruction." Clearly, it makes sense that someone who is not in TM already, and who would like to learn to meditate without dropping what I spent on my Hyundai Excel back in 1986 would search that phrase.

But why would someone who is in TM do the same?

Excellent Question and one worth Meditating over wouldn't you think? Or not to think?

Hello Steven. Just a note of appreciation for pointing me toward the path I've been looking for. I am interested in TM and after I've studied a bit more I will be attempting it on my own as I truly do not have the resources required to pay for and travel to classes. If the TM instruction for fee only brigade has a problem with me reaching out in the only way available to me right now - so be it. It is what it is.
By the way I googled "learn transcendental meditation on my own" and your site was the 2nd link result.

Thank you again. Wishing you love, light and peace. Liz
Liz

Hi Liz,

Welcome to the site and thanks for the compliments.

BTW, here's something from the shameless self-promotion department: If you go to http://www.AdvancedMeditation.com, you can get a free taste of the meditation course I created. In fact, the 2 practices you get when you sign up are enough for a lifetime.

If you choose to try that out, I look forward to what you experience.

Be well,
Steven

Hi Steven

Thank you so much for providing such positive and inspirational information, especially for new comers of TM. Over the past 3-4mnths I have been getting my life back together after a wee bout of Alcohol! I've been reading many many books about life, love and money. A lot of Authors recommend the use of mediation.

I am a painter/artist and I'm looking to improve my technique and results. Please forgive me if I am following the wrong path, but is there a possibility that TM could help me with my quest! Along with a couple of other areas I'd like to improve.

Many thanks for your time.

Jen

hii,
thanks for giving me the information as it costs a lot to me to pay the fee to learn it..but i think you need to touch the extint of the point ..what ever it is it is a great post and thanks once again

hi guys
whatever the price tag TM comes with, I am not moved. TM is the best meditation technique ever, and the results are tremendous. Guys, practising meditation using a book or notes is not easy, try it and tell me about it. pick a mantra "ah" or "one" as Steven claims and tell me if you see any changes, your anxiety level shoots up 'coz you will be looking for results and you don't even know whether yu are doin' it right or not. If you are serious about being a meditator get yourself a teacher, even if it's not a TM teacher just get a meditation teacher to take you through the whole process. it will take you much less time to learn how to meditate. good luck with your free notes!!

Hey Steve,

Just wanted to also commend you on bringing light on the fact that meditation is a form of internal tranquility and discovery, regardless of the process and exact methodology. TM practitioners can try to exploit something so fulfilling as meditation to those who find it so elusive, and I do agree that they are only trying to make a living with something they enjoy doing. But for those who do take the time to research the art of meditation will quickly realize that any instruction as as yours must be general and only serve as a vague foundation. Mastery only comes with personal motivation and practice. Any form of meditation aims to divert your focus from thought itself to the origin of thought. Relying further on external instruction won't make getting in touch with your internal any easier. The only thing I would add to help guide those interested in TM is to view the mantra as all that exists (inside and outside of you), and as you let it continuously resonate in your mind, become increasingly aware of where it is originating from. Perceiving and realizing that the source is something higher than the mind is the common goal of meditation.

Keep the positivity coming!

Thank you for the information. I have read a lot of books that have mentioned Transcendental Meditation (not related to the TM product) and I first looked into it over a year ago. I have noticed in the last year that the price has dropped a lot. Now in Canada it is $1800 (sale on now for $1350). Ok, so I guess that meant when it was $2500, that someone was making a lot of money.

From what I have seen on the website, it looks like you get about 8 hours of instruction and an interview. Math says thats 175 per hour with the sale and $225 per hour full price.

So how do I know it's for me? I think that if TM had a cheaper online introductory version, that maybe I would be more interested in forking out this much $$$, but until then…

I do enjoy the TM intructor complaints though. If I was loosing $200 an hour I would be complaining too. Love the site!

Could TM ever be talk be Teleclasses?

Given the various rituals involved in teaching TM, I don't imagine they'll teach it via teleclass (though, I'm told they do "checking" for existing via the phone).

Steve,
Your analysis and discourse about the copyrighted, expensively studied "Transcendental Meditation" is well written and appropriate.

To my knowledge, no other meditation method is backed by a global organization with a elaborate grant-writing expertise to provide 'scientific basis' for themselves.

I expect that other methods of meditation, contemplation and prayer would reveal similar results if they were as motivated by a multi-billion dollar global enterprise to keep themselves published in various medical journals.

It's a pleasure to read your site! Keep up the great work!

Gina

The TM mantra chart was published in a column in _Omni_ magazine about 1980. I had to look it up at my local library and make a photostat off the microfische.

As far as TM being the same as Dr. Benson's book, that has been confirmed by a guy I talked to who took the full licensed course in the '70's.

Personally, I agree with the comments that TM has become very cost prohibitive to most. Sometimes the people who would gain the most benefit from TM techniques are those who sadly, cannot afford the cost of the instruction. Unfortunately, TM cannot be learned out of Book and I don't care how long people have been teaching other Medication techniques and claim that TM is essentially the same the fact remains that the first instruction in learning TM is to "close your eyes". I do think the cost of the program is ridiculous. I learned TM in the early 90's and I paid 550.00 for my intro lesson. A dear friend of mine paid just 20 dollars in 1970, in France. All in all, I admire the TM program and have benefitted greatly from TM and knowing what I know now, wouldn't hesitate to spend the thousands of dollars it costs today to learn this wonderful technique.

Mr. Sashen,

Thank you for your honesty. I was very close to a top-level Maharishi-trained TM teacher, Charles M. Wilson, in the 1970s and 1980s. Charles encouraged me to learn TM after we were both victims of a horrific, violent assault. I paid the $450 that was the fee at the time and owe my life to the practice of TM, and to Charles for his simple leadership by example. While he encouraged me to pay the fee and learn from masters, he agreed with your simple rules. Repeat, in a quiet place, a mantra, for 20 minutes, twice a day, and if it doesn't work, keep doing it. If you have disturbing thoughts while repeating the mantra, return to the mantra. I never stopped. There IS something about paying that fee that helps some people keep practicing. For the rest of us, it is the serenity and wealth of mind that generates the desire to practice. Thank you for sharing this knowledge. I found your comments while searching for a wise explanation of TM for a young person who needs to overcome the strong pulls of an insane world and find an inner peace. Thank you.

Hello,
I've recently become interested in meditation and found your site through google.Not knowing much about it,your site has given me BOTH views on TM.Whether they're believers(in TM)or not,all the comments have shown me a wide range of opinions.You seem very informed on this subject and I appreciate that it's not just a TM bashing site.You give the facts,and leave the rest up to us.Keep up the good work.I will return. THANK YOU

For years I thought meditation was too hard to attain. That is until I realized it is a personal endeavor. Sure one could use a mantra or words or sentence or use a specific practice. However I do now believe by trying different forms of meditation myself, it is between an individual and pure energy or life. Then everything else comes naturaly. I will never again go without meditation as I find it a neccesary part of my daily life. In this world we all need a little stillness for our soul. Though this is not what I wanted to even write it jsut came out of my fingers. What I did want to write to you was to say Thank You! I enjoyed reading your article. When people charge an inhuman amount of money to learn the most basic thing I find myself wondering where thier hearts are in the matter. I am not saying to charge money is a bad thing but the amount that some charge is ridiculous. I also think that not many of those who practice this way of life especially spiritual leaders would appreciate in the way it is done some of the time. Just my thoughts on the subject. I do not expect everyone to agree with me. Thank you again and have a blessed day.

There are several inaccuracies, the first of which is cost of TM. You only need to go to the official TM website to confirm that the price quoted here is considerably more than most people will actually pay. This alone should tell you something about Mr White's motives and he admits to not being a trained teacher of TM. Ergo, he is making comparisons without full knowledge of pertinent facts.
As a long-term practitioner I know that TM does what Maharishi claims. Having completed an SCI course I also know WHY it works and why other meditation techniques are not comparable. It is simply not enough to just choose a mantra and use it in the way described. That may make you feel better. It may even release some stress. It is definitely NOT going to give you the benefits arising from learning TM at an approved teaching centre.

Bob,

I'm going to assume you'll realize I'm not singling you out but, instead, am using your post to highlight some "thinking errors" that are common in debates about meditation.

First, TM has cost $2,500… it now says $1,500 on the website. But if you add in the cost of advanced programs, the price goes WAY up (and I won't even get into the $1,000,000 program the Maharishi put together just before his death).

Second, the fact that the price listed in this article is not the same as what's on the TM site at this time says NOTHING about Mr. White's motivation. To know someone's motivation requires much more information than what is, for all you know, a typo.

Third, not being a "trained teacher" does not mean he's missing facts. Again, since you don't know Mr. White, you don't know the kind of research he's done or how his personal history does (or doesn't) give him access to "pertinent facts."

(Notice, btw, that I'm not as much saying "You're wrong, Bob" as I'm pointing out that you don't have enough information to make the claims you're making… and, again, this isn't personal. This is a common "glitch" in conversations like this, especially, when someone has a differing position on something we hold dear.)

Next, your personal experience of TM is exactly that, YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. The only thing you KNOW is what your own experience has been. We cannot generalize to all humans based on our personal experience (even though it's what our brains are built to do). Anyone who has been married or in a long-term relationship knows that the source of most arguments is assuming that our personal experience (which "makes sense" and has lots of support) is true for another.

And we tend to use our personal experience as a way of ignoring what are sometimes referred to as alternate histories. For example…

You cannot know what the effect of having a different mantra (even a random one) would be, since you don't have an identical twin who took that alternate path, nor did you go back in time and relive history as a test.

Similarly, you cannot know that TM is better than all other practices because neither you, nor any other person, has created a scientifically sound test to examine that hypothesis. FWIW, by saying, in essence, "TM is the best," is ignoring the historical attainments of every other meditator. It's like saying, "Oh, sure, The Buddha became awakened… but he would have done it faster if he'd been doing TM," or, "The Dalai Lama may be a nice guy, but since I'm doing TM, I'm a better meditator."

You may know, of course, that EVERY lineage likes to say that their technique is the best. And many lineages split when students and teacher differ over techniques (or even things as stupid as how you hold your hands while meditating).

Further, among meditators in any lineage there's no evidence that everyone gets the same benefits, attainments, etc. And, clearly, they don't. It's rare that anyone ever even claims to approach the original teacher's "level." And obviously some students stop practicing, and some are more skilled than others (in the same way that some people are better at math than others).

As I've said on this blog many times, my intention is to further the conversation about meditative practices — which are typically mired in turf-battles, anecdotal evidence in lieu of data, and name-calling. Thanks for letting me use your comment to to that end, Bob.

Thanks for your response. I can see that your points are reasonable even though I remain unconvinceed by some of them. Not wishing to appear dismissive but rather than spend time refuting these, it suits my original purpose to just let others make their own decisions.
One thing I will add, however:
A professional scientist told me that if a scientist has a new theory, they should devise an experiment which has a possible result of conclusively proving that the theory is false. They should then do the experiment.
When I heard about TM I learned it and tried it out from that point of view and I did the full SCI course so that I would understand the science behind the technique. In my case I think it cost £25 to learn TM and £150 for the SCI course, and in my case it works too well for me to have any doubt.
You have pointed out that I only know my own experience. True, but by that argument, if taken literally, how does my dropping bottles off my balcony prove that Newton would have got the same numbers? In other words we can only say that Heisenberg is probably right! (apologies to those who don't understand this joke)

Steven,
Reading your reply again about 10 hours after my response, I find that I do need to make more of a reply for the benefit of others. I will therefore answer your statements in the same order:-
1. Despite your argument the fact remains that the TM site shows less than your original post and also mentions reduction for people on low income. Nobody needs to do the extra courses that you mention. Your original post might have been true at the time, I have no evidence about that, but there is no denying that it is wrong now, and readers need to know that.
2. I never said that I know Mr White's motives, I only said that the reader can use the discrepancy as a clue, just like the peculiar brand of tobacco or the broken cuff link in a case for Columbo. I did not say it proves that Mr White is the killer. You are entitled to believe that the clue is meaningless but in my opinion what I actually said remains true.
3. Fair comment that he MIGHT know as much as I do or more without being a teacher (I am not a teacher but am a trained checker). But assuming that to be true, the answer to "which is best?" can only be a personal opinion, as you have so adeptly pointed out. And he can only make that assessment if he has actually tried TM.
You make sensible comments about the comparison, but please note that I never made any claim about TM being better. I said the results are different, and that's not an opinion, it's a fact, just as a boiled egg is different from scrambled egg but I like both.
4. As a trained checker, I can explain that in most cases, failure is explainable by either wrong technique or incorrect expectation. In the latter case, it's people believing that a quick 20 minutes will improve their performance at an interview, for example. Sometimes it does but it's not what TM is supposed to do. It's designed to give you long term benefits and it's just happy for me that I had couple of dramatic and immediate benefits - physical as well as mental. When I check people who have reported some problem they always leave feeling better, and please everyone do not assume that checking involves salesmanship. It is simply a set of statements about HOW to do TM correctly, which the checker must memorise verbatim and speak the right one depending on a yes or no answer. In my own meditation I normally find I feel better after a meditation that was boring and by the way I quit smoking "cold turkey", not by making an effort of will power but simply by discovering at the bus stop one morning that my opinion had changed from "I have the right to smoke if I want to" to "There is no sensible reason to waste money and suffer the discomfort of this disgusting habit other than being addicted to nicotine." As Krishnamurti tells us, it does not require will power to remove your hand from a burning candle.
Finally, there is the matter of the TM organisation doing the experiments. I won't argue with that except to say I believe that an independent experimenter with the same resources would get the same results. I learned TM with the intention to discover whether it does what it says on the tin. I cannot prove to a non meditator that it does, but I have disproved the theory that it does not.
Once again, I am only saying that TM is radically different from the techniques I have read about in books and leaflets. "Different" is a proveable fact and if Mr White does have the knowledge, I now accept his right to write about the differences. "Better" is a matter of opinion, and his is no more valid than mine or anyone else. Is TM worth trying? You decide.

Bob

ps points missed you can assume I agree with Steven

Very interested in meditation because of its benefits, I have tried to practice different types during the past 3 or so years. I have been on the edge of paying for a TM course. However, I'm glad I didn't and I'm glad I found this well informed and well written website.

In my opinion TM is nothing more than a hidden religion; comparable to the Vippassana movement (I have done the 10 days course and I don't want them to contact me again to "donate" money or time in building their meditation centes. These hidden religions are growing and expanding throughout the world with the money collected from meditators. All about power, all about competition to prove who is the best.

Keep breathing,
Thanks Steven

Hi "stillbreathing", I read your post with interest. I can understand how TM might seem a hidden religion to an outsider. As you said there are a lot of those about and I could make a long post about why they are such a curse on humanity, but I won't. It's the wrong place and it might cause offence.
It's true that religion is mentioned by TM teachers and I believe the Maharishi was a Hindu. Don't treat that as fact, it's my guess after watching him lecture and reading some of his biography. He re-interpreted the Bhagavad Gita and was criticised by his countrymen so make what you will of that. The point is that in about 3 years of attending local group meetings (weekly, but I must have missed a few) nobody ever suggested that I should believe in any particular god or set of moral values. As a matter of fact they stressed quite often that if you do TM correctly it doesn't make any difference what you believe.
I can also understand your reluctance to pay, and to be honest I think at present they are asking too much for it. But I do agree for reasons already given on this board that most people should pay something, and after all you don't ask a hotel manager to give you a free room or complain that their rent is too high, you just decide whether you like that hotel
enough to pay. The TM organisation needs an income and that's a simple matter of economics.
I can't comment on how TM compares to or differs from Vippassana because I know absolutely nothing about Vippassana beyond what you have told us. All I do know is that if you follow some practice that you read in a book or training manual, you will not be doing TM. And if you are not doing TM then it is simple logic that you will not get the benefits that TM gives. Whether the benefits you do get are "better" than TM is a different question.
My advice is to contact your local TM centre, tell them about your experience and concerns and test whether they will clear up any of your problems.
In my experience TM teachers are never offended by people saying the kind of things you have said on this board and I can assure you they will never contact you for anything other than giving you requested information.
Anyway it's up to you of course but if you don't get the facts from a TM teacher you will never know what you are rejecting.

Regards
BobH

I learned to do TM 40 years ago and became a TM teacher several years later. I spent a considerable amount of time studying with the Maharishi and no book or CD could ever replace or compare, to being in his physical presence. He was without a doubt an enlightened man and his wisdom and foresight was incredible. He had a vision, and that was to spread TM throughout the world, thus creating world peace. When I learned TM there was a donation fee and many learned free from the Maharishi himself. The movement was growing in leaps and bounds and so to keep up with the demands, more and more teachers had to be trained and materials were needed to spread this invaluable knowledge. Thus the cost began to rise and the movement spread in many directions.
Anyway, I guess my point is, learning to meditate via books CD's has always been an option, and for some seekers I guess it works, but for me, I wouldn't trade the personal instruction for anything. There's something more than just a mantra imparted in the teaching(and no one ever said there was a personal mantra for every single person in the world).
But on the other hand, I would encourage everyone to learn to meditate in what ever way is convenient, and if it works great, but if not, try some method of learning how to do this invaluable daily practice.

Hi Crystal, interesting story. Did Maharishi laugh a lot? He seemed to like making jokes in the SCI course videos. Just want to tell you and other readers I agree 100% with your post. I would never try to persuade someone to swap to TM from some other practice - just that meditation is a good thing to do. Which method a person chooses is up to them, and my real point is just that if they choose to do it from a book then it isn't TM. I won't be investigating Vippassana and the reason is not what "stillbreathing" said against it, but just because I already know how to do TM and I can't imagine anything better.

BobH

I totally agree, as a matter of fact, if you choose a mantra not suitable for your nervous system, repeating it over and over again on the subtle levels of consciousness, could actually do harm. In these deep levels, the word, words or sound chosen, become very powerful. For example, unless you would like to lead the life of a recluse, choosing the mantra OM, is not recommended. So I do recommend caution if you are going to choose your own mantra. This is not meant to discourage anyone from finding a way to experience the transcendental state of consciousness that lies within each and everyone of us. Personally I think we can experience this state doing all sorts of things like music, art or walks in the park(nature), but the key is tapping into it on a regular basis. So happy meditating to all you seekers! Stick with it if it feels comfortable and beneficial.

Hi BobH, Yes, the Maharishi was always laughing! He was so blissful and very playful. An amazing combination of complete innocence and utter wisdom. Everybody wanted to be near him just to soak up the loving radiance that poured from his being. I feel so blessed that I was able to experience the presence of this enlightened man! I can't even come close to putting into words what it was like to spend time with him. It hurts me to hear people criticizing the TM movement because the man who started it had only one purpose, and that was to try and save the human race from self destruction, through a technique of meditation, which he called TM. He wanted it to bring peace to the ones that practiced it and thus, the world. Of course the movement, which has been lead by people who are not necessarily enlightened, has probably made a few mistakes, but I'm sure they're doing the best they can, in this imperfect world, in trying to keep his vision alive. I my humble opinion, the only hope we have to save ourselves, is to enliven our consciousness through regular practice of some form of meditation.

I have to challenge the "wrong mantra = bad consequences" comment, Crystal.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support that idea.

In fact, there's no evidence that any mantra is any better/worse than any other.

That was part of the research that Herbert Benson did at Harvard.

Dear Steve,

Good to hear you referring to research.
Here's an excerpt from the followng link:
http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/TMResearch/ComparisonofTechniques/RelaxationResponse/index.cfm
This review examines all relevant documents found in Medline and the psychology literature using the search words "relaxation response", and all studies found comparing different relaxation and meditation techniques, including 11 meta-analyses (including three that were synthesized into a later one) and 33 reviews (including reviews covered by later reviews), all in all synthesizing approximately 790 studies. Part I covers acute physiological changes that occur during the various techniques, and Part II covers their medical and other short and long-term benefits.

Part I: Acute Effects

The relaxation response was modeled after the Transcendental Meditation technique (TM): "The studies of Transcendental Meditation suggested the existence of a physiological response which could be elicited by other techniques" (p. 115). 6 Wallace and colleagues found that TM decreased O2 consumption, respiratory rate, heart rate, muscle tension, and blood pressure and increased skin resistance and EEG alpha waves to a greater extent than uninstructed rest while just sitting with eyes closed. 7-9 These are basically a list of the changes said to constitute the relaxation response.1-3

Benson and colleagues created their own technique, which has been widely referred to in the literature as the "Benson technique". 10-12

The Benson technique
The first study of the Benson technique (BT) found a 10% reduction in O2 consumption during a 12-minute period relative to an equivalent period of unstructured eyes closed resting. 6 This is 60% less than the reduction of 16% for TM in the same amount of time 7, 8 using comparable subjects (undergraduates of both sexes, mean age of 24 years) and methodologies (mouth piece or mask with a Beckman gas analyzer). In the TM study, the baseline level of O2 consumption was 246.8 ml/min and decreased to 206.5 ml/min after 12 minutes (interpolated from the 10 and 20 minute measurement). 7 For BT, the change went from 251.4 ml/min during rest to 225.4 ml/min. The level of O2 consumption was thus 8.4% lower during TM than during BT (t(23)=2.05, p<.06, trend), and the level of CO2 elimination was 173.9 ml/min during TM compared to 214.1 ml/min for the BT, a significant 18.7% difference (t(23)=2.56, p=.02).

An independent study by Cork and Cox of the Stress Research unit of Nottingham University, England, instructed subjects who "listened to taped relaxation instructions taken from Beary and Benson and then practiced the technique" (p. 102). 11 They found: "The heart speeds up during inspiration and then slows down during expiration, thereby producing sinus arrhythmia"(p. 105)11 Other than producing sinus arrhythmia, which is a well known effect of controlling breathing,13 Cork and Cox found that BT did not produce changes in blood pressure and heart rate different from the baseline condition and control condition. In a second study comparing BT to resting, they report: "However, these [reductions on blood pressure, pulse, and mood] occurred both when subjects were practicing Benson's technique and when they were simply resting quietly. There were, therefore, no differential effects of the two procedures on psychophysiological state" (p. 107).11 They further note: "Pollack and Zeiner (1979) 14 found no significant differences in the psychophysiological effect of Benson's technique, uninstructed relaxation, and sitting quietly . The only procedure causing any significant change was sitting quietly which led to the greatest reductions in heart rate" (p. 110). 11

Recently, Benson and colleagues report reduced frontal beta EEG activity during BT, but no significant changes for any other frequency band or scalp location. 15 This is different from the original specification of the relaxation response, which included increased alpha waves, 1 and it is different from the physiology of the TM technique in which alpha and theta increase.7-9, 16, 17 Moreover, beta activity has been observed to increase in some phases of the TM technique.16
Cheers!

Steven

Please always bear in mind when talking science that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence - meaning (in this instance) that just because there is no evidence of "wrong mantra = bad experience" does not mean that it can never have that effect. Doesn't necessarily mean every time, but why take the risk if you can get the right mantra? In science we can roll steel balls, drop bottles off 34th floor balconies and inject rats with chemicals and then we can observe the results, and if the results contradict the theory then we know that the theory is wrong, but the point is that everyone who does the same experiment will get the same result.
A mental technique is different. You have to understand what Maharishi meant by his warning and what basis he used. For me it's all there within the SCI course, but for people lacking that information it's not easy to explain. I might compare it to changing a light bulb while the switch is still "on" and you are standing in a puddle in metal-studded boots. Maybe you can do it 100 times and not get a shock, but do you want to do that just to prove a point?

Bob,

TM prides itself on producing scientific research to support its claims. And while I have a LOT of problems with the research they've done (typically, bad controls, small cohorts, and selection bias… which is often seen in ALL meditation studies, not just the ones done by TM), even THEY don't have a study that shows "wrong mantra = bad effect."

"Better safe than sorry" is rhetorically invalid — it's presupposing the affirmative position. And it's a scare tactic that's ultimately used as a last resort (e.g. "Flying in airplanes may NOT lead to spontaneous human combustion, but why take the risk if you can take the train?!")

Hi Jean,

Thanks for the reference, but it has a big problem.

Let's ignore for a moment that the website you referenced has as its purpose supporting TM.

The article in question is cherry picking research (from 1970!) to support the claim that TM is better than "The Benson Technique" (and , the only people who call it that are TM people).

I'm still hunting down some of the original research papers which, from what I can tell already, have a problem — comparing practiced TM meditators with people who are new to "The Benson Technique".

Pulling out the Cork and Cox research is HYSTERICAL because it demonstrates that anyone quoting it doesn't to ANYTHING about human physiology! Why do I say that? Google "heart rate variability." This article is suggesting that C&C found that "taped relaxation instructions" produce some HORRIBLE effect where your heart rate speeds up when you inhale and slows down when you exhale. Guess what? It's SUPPOSED TO! In fact, if your heart rate does NOT do that, it's the surest sign that you are seriously ill!

Further, quoting one study that says "hey, when people listened to this tape, not much happened," is a meaningless comparison, since to even LEARN TM, you have to have practiced WAY more than the 10 minutes it takes to listen to Benson's tape. AND, one study doesn't mean anything… one critical aspect of science is reproducing a study — if it only works in one lab, it doesn't mean anything. And, as the NIMH has pointed out "The scientific research that has investigated the physiological changes associated with meditation as it is practiced by adherents of Indian Yoga, Transcendental Meditation, and Zen Buddhism has not yielded a thoroughly consistent, easily replicable pattern of responses."

Anyway, I assume you know that I'm not trying to single you out, Jean, but to point out that to have a discussion about science, one needs to do more than merely quote an article, especially one that is a biased meta-analysis summary. At the very least, you need to look at the original studies and have the skills or resources to know the difference between a valid study and an invalid one.

Repeating a falsehood doesn't make it true.

Dear Steve,

Please help me out with a few points

1. In your previous post you write, "In fact, there's no evidence that any mantra is any better/worse than any other. That was part of the research that Herbert Benson did at Harvard."

Now you might have just said "there is no evidence that any mantra is any better/worse than any other." But you didn't stop there you went on to say, "That was part of the research that Herbert Benson did at Harvard."

What exactly did you mean by saying, "That was part of the research that Herbert Benson did at Harvard."? Can you show us the excerpt from the research you are referring to, so we will have a better basis for understanding you.

2. You originally originally quoted research from 1970 and then you seem to take issue that I quote research from 1970.?

3. You say, "This article is suggesting that C&C found that "taped relaxation instructions" produce some HORRIBLE effect where your heart rate speeds up when you inhale and slows down when you exhale."

Whereas what is said is, "Other than producing sinus arrhythmia, which is a well known effect of controlling breathing…" "sinus arrhythmia" is a technical term for what is going on and then says, "which is a well known effect of controlling breathing". Where does your description above fit in to this rather benign comment? Is the term sinus arrhythmia sound, "HORRIBLE" to you?

3. You say, "one study doesn't mean anything… one critical aspect of science is reproducing a study — if it only works in one lab, it doesn't mean anything."

OK, but then why are you quoting one study?

4. You say, "you need to look at the original studies and have the skills or resources to know the difference between a valid study and an invalid one….."

There are 350 published peer reviewed studies showing all the benefits of transcendental meditation, quite a few of these studies are meta-analyses comparing the TM Technique to other mental techniques.

I want to be sure you are aware that of the rule that requires drug companies have only two Random Controlled Trials (RCT) that show positive results in order to distribute a drug. They can have 4 RCTs conducted and only 2 of them need to show positive results.
There have been about 47 published peer-reviewed Random Controlled Trials showing the benefits of Transcendental Meditation.
Cheers!

My apologies for whipping out a quick reply to your post rather than spending the time to craft something more "60 Minutes-esque."

In my defense, I'll say that many people more interested and meticulous than I have taken TM to task for the quality of their studies, and I defer to them.

But, as human beings have tendency to stick to their beliefs even in the face of contradictory evidence (in fact, they tend to get more attached to them), there's nothing I could say here, and nothing any of the critics of the TM studies have said, that sways TM supporters from their position.

Given that, and given that I have no interest in battling with TM people, I'll merely encourage anyone who has the desire to search the literature for the critical analysis of TM studies (and further encourage them to not rely on authors or websites with ties to TM… in the same way I wouldn't ask anyone interested in the safety of Nutrasweet to go to nutrasweet.com, e.g.).

In short, I'm so sick of arguing with TM people who are CONVINCED that their practice is the only thing that works, that TM better than ANY other form of meditation (too bad the Buddha wasn't doing TM), and that SCIENCE has validated it and the Maharishi is the greatest and smartest human being who has ever lived (I'm being hyperbolic on purpose, BTW), that I'm just not going to do it anymore.

At best, I think I'll ask for proof for ideas like "wrong mantra = bad consequences," or point out when someone is expressing an opinion as if it were fact, and just leave it at that.

HI Steven, I have an idea. Why don't you just call the meditation you are teaching, something other than TM. Instead of piggy backing on the transcendental meditation technique, which you seem to think is so 'bad', why don't you come up with an original name for your meditation. I think that would solve everything. You would no longer have to argue with people that support the TM program!!

Uh…. Crystal, I don't call the meditation I'm teaching "TM."
The post, above, is about a BOOK written by someone else that's about TM, and then I mention a simple mantra meditation practice that I don't call TM.
Regarding the "arguments," well, I've found that if you say ANYTHING other than "TM is the greatest thing since sliced bread," you should prepare for an onslaught of comments from people who act like you've called their baby ugly (even if the kid is a bit odd-looking).

So, Steven, if you don't call it TM, what's all the hype about here, and what do you call it? I'm all for everybody doing some kind of meditation and I don't give a rats ass about how they do it! That's a personal choice just as everyone's experience is personal! But just do it! I personally have never suggested that TM is the best way to meditate. It's worked very well for me, but I've never tried anything else, so I have nothing to compare it to. I think it is one of the easier techniques to learn, but I have no judgment over any others. And I could care less about the scientific data done on TM. I'm sure that was done to make it more appealing to our western culture.
Anyway Steven, good on you for presenting a meditation to people who don't have the means to learn it any other way, I commend you! So rock on!

Steven

You may be right about the organisation's own research, I can't show from my own knowledge that you're not so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. On the risk point however you are being just a little unfair in that I am not making the sort of stupid claim that you used to make your point. Everybody (well most people anyway!) must be aware that handling a live light bulb IS inherently risky - my point is it isn't ALWAYS fatal, and therefore cannot be a decisive experiment.
Anyway I think I have gleaned all I want from this thread (thanks for starting it!) and I really have nothing else to contribute, so I will go on my way enjoying TM and leave everyone else to do whatever they want.

Dear Steve,

Your apology is, of course, accepted.

I was wondering, who are these “many people more interested and meticulous” than you who, “have taken TM to task for the quality of their studies”, to whom you “defer”?

Are any of them reviewers for any peer-reviewed journals? Are any of them on the review boards of peer-reviewed journals? Are any of them published researchers in the fields of EEG, physiology or psychology? Do you know one peer-reviewer who is dismissing TM research as weak or biased? If you do, please let me know his or her name.

As far as I know, peer-reviewers take this research seriously, and have continued to publish hundreds of different studies over 40 years. Another obvious example, is the fact that the scientists at the National Institutes of Health have granted $26 Million over 20 years for research on The TM Technique.

One quote that may be interest regarding this, “Over the past 10 years the editors and reviewers of the International Journal of Neuroscience have accepted several papers on Transcendental Meditation because they have met the rigorous standards of scientific publication. IJN is honored to have two Nobel laureates on its editorial board, and has a distinguished group of scientists from leading universities on every continent who judge the scientific value of the papers submitted for consideration.”
—Dr. Sidney Weinstein, Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Neuroscience

People can search the internet on their own and visit many different websites for research on The Transcendental Meditation Technique. I would suggest websites that post published, peer-reviewed studies, wouldn’t you? They would find, if they were very industrious, the same 350 published peer-reviewed studies, which have been made available for easy access, on TM.org and TruthaboutTM.org. Certainly, people can find them the "hard way" if they want. Most people appreciate an easier way to access them, don’t you think?
The TM Organization is non-profit and philanthropic, teaching homeless for free, teaching school children for free, with their parents consent, teaching Native Americans for free, teaching people around the world in the poorest of countries for free. For people in the US with limited means there are grants, scholarships and loans suited to whatever their financial situation is.

You make another interesting point about Buddha. As you are probably aware, Lord Buddha was very much a part of the Vedic Tradition. Some of your readers may not be aware that there are entire monasteries of Buddhist monks practicing The Transcendental Meditation Techniuqe throughout Asia. Entire schools run by Buddhist nuns are practicing The TM Technique. Many thousands of them were taught personally by Maharishi. Many of these Buddhist monks and nuns are convinced that Maharishi has revived Buddha's ancient wisdom and returned it to them. Maharishi makes reference to Lord Buddha in his preface to his commentary on the Bhagavad-Gita (Chapters 1-6).

The crown text of Buddism, Shurangama Sutra (written by Manjusri, Buddha’s major Bodhisattva expositor and custodian of knowledge) explains that "the medium of inner sound" is the best way to transcend: "From the gateway of the ear, I obtained a perfect and illumining Samadhi that allowed me to respond at ease to beings' minds. By entering the flow back to the nature and obtaining Samadhi, I accomplished Bodhi. That is the foremost means." The S. Sutra articulates on this at length.

You say, “human beings have tendency to stick to their beliefs even in the face of contradictory evidence (in fact, they tend to get more attached to them)”

I can very much appreciate what you say. Keeping up with global events, it’s becoming clear that to move forward as a society, we need to structure our goals and actions in support of technologies that have been shown, through rigorous science, to give the maximum beneficial effects to the world as a whole and to the people in it.

Many of us, including myself, started out very skeptical about The TM Technique. After experiencing the benefits right away, and then experiencing the benefits accumulate over many years, and then seeing the research, validating the technique, mount year after year, now numbering 350 published peer-reviewed studies, including 50 Random Controlled Trials with 8 meta-analyses, my skepticism began to gradually give way to appreciation.

How would you say you are doing in regards to what you have stated, “human beings have tendency to stick to their beliefs even in the face of contradictory evidence (in fact, they tend to get more attached to them)”?

All,

I feel so bad that there is such conflict going on for and against TM on many websites these days. Both sides make good points and I wish TM could be accepted along with other effortless, natural mental techniques for their benefits for individuals and for a peaceful world.

Several posters here have commented on their personal experiences, which for me is the bottom line. I do have sympathy for the point of view that research on TM is frequently conducted by TM meditators, without adequate controls, and with too few subjects. But I am equally sympathetic to the point of view that NIH would never have funded research into TM at the $20 million level unless they had confidence that the research was valuable; they're too smart, too responsible, and too well-monitored, (since they spend the taxpayers' money).

I also sympathize with the anecdotal (non-scientific) evidence presented by several TM practitioners above. I also have been practicing TM for 40 years and credit it for keeping me alive, as well as refreshing me twice a day. It has paid back its cost and daily practice time many times over. However, I also share the justified concern with the remarkably high course fees (even charged to high school students although fortunately paid by the David Lynch Foundation, so they can benefit from improved study skills and freedom from school violence).

I do agree that TM, although easy to practice, requires great skill of the teacher. A single paragraph of instructions might work for a few minutes, but will not be adequate for a lifetime of results.

If permitted, I would like to point out that there are direct alternatives to TM, such as NSR Meditation (NSR: Natural Stress Relief), which is a teach-yourself technique based on a detailed 6-lesson workbook. Its low price of $47 reflects the fact that its two organizations are nonprofit and volunteer-based. I call this an 'alternative' to TM because it also teaches transcending; it produces a similar reduction in anxiety, as shown by two papers presenting our self-conducted research that we have published in two peer-reviewed psychology journals.

So people have a great many choices, ranging from free meditation instruction, through Relaxation Response (which has no support in case of difficulties because it includes no in-depth understanding of all the experiences one can have as a result of deep meditation), through NSR, through TM. I agree with Crystal and others that many techniques can result in the experience of Samadhi, which is a natural state of unbounded bliss.

Steven, thank you for hosting this forum and I wish you success with your efforts to promote effective meditation.

David Spector
President,
NSR Meditation/USA

I heard somewhere that experiments and experience derive from the same latin term. Just a sidenote What im trying to say is that at the end of the day what kind of positive results are gained from TM Meditation.And not to single out any other form of meditation. Perhaps traveling around the world and asking what people are doing to get results. First off there has to be a motive in wanting to do any kind of meditation in the first place. "Enlightenment" appears as a nice word in my english vocabularly although I have no way of perceiving it as I don't know for sure. I have gone manic and felt enlightened if i define enlightened as this extreme feeling of euphoric experience so if thats what it is HOORAY FOR ME!!! Ashame it only lasted a month.
Deep breathing has seemed to help calm my nerves without having to really read much into meditation and mantras involved. Regardless honestly i think this should all be publicly free information available to anyone. A pdf and video can be made for much cheaper than the cost of $2500. Kinda funny how we wanna learn ways to let go of things such as greed and these material things in our life but use it against us when we monetize something that's always been free for the taking. Personally i dont care who's founded any kind of meditation…If it makes us as a better whole in society find a way to give what might be an invaluable item to the world. Free

I'll accept any donations for the above wisdom i've just shared with you all.;) My best

Apparently Kay knows nothing about meditation. How ridiculus to thing TM is any different from any other Mantra based Meditation.

Those things are not TM but they do not cost $1500 or or more for some courses. why are all meditators obliged to subsidize the various TM projects? Several years ago the TMOrgan. offered to pay $100 million(and probably much more)for land in Costa Rica. There were 2 or 3 articles in the Tico Times, an Eng. language news paper from Costa Rica. someone gave me 2 or 3 copies. I was shocked! This encouraged me to believe some of the stories about the TMOrgan. buying hotels and real estate in several places.I have heard many meditators say "the money just came to me" to pay the high TM fees. Some spent $15000 or more

"Non-profit" is a misnomer."Non-profit" organizations do not pay taxes. Just because you make these claims (philanthropy,teaching native americans etc.) does not verify anything. Just because the TMOrgan. names a trailor park on Maha.U campus "Utopia Park " does not guarantee utopia. The TMOrgan. tried to buy native american land in Costa Rica. The native americans wanted to rent the land to the TMO but the TMO demanded to own it. The Costa Rican govt. evicted the TMO. Research it if you do not believe me.

One can read about the number of mantras and how they are assigned(by age)on http://www.suggestability.com There supposedly exists a "Maharishi Effect" to inspire peace. Some years ago at Maha U. a student was murdered by another student, right on campus, in Fairfield,Ia. Fairfield is a small town w/ a large conentration of meditators and advanced meditators. The "Maha. Effect" was not so effective. I suspect the some TMOrgan. claims are exaggerated. To me bouncing is not "yogic-flying" for ex.

Just gotta say Steven, you're a bad ass! You take the time to eloquently pick apart many of the less than thoroughly thought through criticisms of your article. From some of the responses I've read here, I'll assume "you can't learn TM from a book, you need a trained teacher!" is the REAL secret mantra.

Hi

Firstly, I'm glad your site exists

Is TM the same as Zen meditation? I want to get back to the Zen method that I practiced years ago (count from 10 and start again) but after i checked out TM on TM.org I wonder if the effect will be the same? I am very comfortable with the Zen method but I would like the benefit of TM (according to Dr Hagelin's website and the TM.org group the effects are astounding)

Is the result the same? Also, my Zen method (the one I practiced in the past) I got from a book by Thich Thien-An. I think I got lazy and didn't bother with it, but lately I'm finding myself very worried about life, finances, etc and would like a more peaceful, healthier approach to issues.

Thanks in advance.

Dear Steven,

I have been very interested in TM for quite some time now and have been doing a lot of research on it. I will not lie, the price of learning the technique is very high up there… but I am not quite sure if you have enough evidence to back up your suggestion that you do not need the official classes to learn the practice. There are countless people worldwide who swear to the practice of TM and that there is no price for the wonders that it does… but where are all of the people claiming that you can learn it from a book? I have yet to hear of or read somewhere that someone learned TM… or something like it… and their life greatly improved exactly as the practice is supposed to. I do not see any scientific studies.

Of course we are all slightly skeptical of anything that costs a significant amount of money; but I have come to realize that… THINGS COST MONEY. Nothing is free in this world. I am going to college next fall and will be paying $25,000 a year to go… but I know it is worth it. Just like College, TM has fees you must pay to gain higher education, that is, in yourself.

When I find the time and money, I plan to learn Transcendental Meditation from a certified teacher. I have read book after book, article after article, on how to learn TM on your own… and I have yet to succeed. I truly believe that once I take the simple TM course, I will be able to see the outstanding improvements that TM beholds in my own life.

Thank you,

Kelsey.

I've read your page and I believe that what I do to calm me down is TM. I listened to water running with my eyes closed trying not to think, to leave my mind blank.I do that every night for 10-10 minutes and I feel very calm.
I've done that for about three months because I worked mentally and my brain feel tired.
I feel very good, calm , not nervous and sleep great.
I this is TM I have done it without knowing it.
It's very similar of what you talk about .

I did TM for a number of years. I obtained minimal benefits (sometimes it relaxed me), but I was impressed by the hype and wanted to give it a real chance. I came to the conclusion that it seems to work very well for some (very few) people, but not for me. I am not sure why that is. I took advantage of the free checking, having been "checked" dozens of times. I have had several (probably dozens) of friends and associates who learned TM. None of them has continued the practice, though several have told me TM interested them in the potential of meditation and lead them to other paths.

I have meditated since I was 18 and I am now 57. The technique is life changing. The instructions above are not TM. And the mantras matter tremendously. Grateful people were not misinforming people this way when I was taught. Maybe you should wait until they have a sale on TM, but get the real thing. It's worth it.

Hello…hello…is anybody there?

Depends on what you mean by "anybody"

I often see arguments presented on the internet about TM…whether it has to be learned in person, whether it is a religion in disguise, whether studies supporting the efficacy of TM were legitimately done to strict scientific standards. Generally, comments made against TM are followed by an onslaught of emails by an army of TM defenders.However, I've never heard an explanation of why so many people quit TM. It isn't due to laziness in most instances, as I see that many of those ex-TM'ers end up on some other spiritual path, usually one that is not so "effortless." I believe many more people discontinue TM practice than persist in it. I wonder why that is…

The simple answer is: lack of support. TM has only provided meditation checking at a TM center. Many practitioners forget this when they have difficulties due to incorrect practice. Without checking or at least answering their questions, things get worse until they quit. We don't have that problem with Natural Stress Relief (NSR) because we provide good support, including a forum for practitioners, something TM would never do.

David Spector
Natural Stress Relief/USA

Very interesting article, and even more entertaining comments.

I'd like to raise a question though. Has anyone actually studied the underlying physics or principles behind meditation?

Making a knowingly broad theory involving somewhat spacial logic; if you take meditation:
-"stillness"/diminishing energy returns/atomic bonding
-a "focused" and sustained "sound"

compare with our current idea of literal "space"
-In order to have space, something must exist for us to measure with or in relative to. If nothing exists, then technically there's no space.

compare those with our current knowledge of energy
-is a quantity that can be assigned to every particle, object, and system of objects as a consequence of the state of that particle, object or system of objects.
-may not be created nor destroyed

compare those ideas with our current take on "string theory"
-electrons and quarks within an atom are not 0-dimensional objects, but rather 1-dimensional oscillating lines ("strings"), possessing only the dimension of length, but not height or width. The theory posits that these strings can vibrate, thus giving the observed particles their flavor, charge, mass and spin

Then take in consideration what "sound" is; regarding these mantras of neuro-linguistic programming, meditation, or whatever
-Sound is a travelling wave which is an oscillation of pressure transmitted through a solid, liquid, or gas, composed of frequencies

And i think you get something to think about.

Is there anyway a giant study could be made to figure out if meditation has any of these things in common, or there is a link between all these things? Would it be possible to find an individual's "correct" sound frequency, have him/her maintain it in their "mind" or even analogously throughout the day, while practicing meditative "stillness", and reproduce the effects of TM?

something to think about while i'm bored at work…

I came online today to look for a way to calm the stress and anger that has built up in my life due to a retirement causing car accident back in 1994. I thought meditation to be a way to help. I meditated by 'deep concentration' in the past with great success coming the following days after these "concentration" sessions. Was this TM? I doubt it. Was it relaxing? Yes! Was it helpful? Yes!. Did I get results from these sessions? Yes! Did they cost me $2,500.00…….HECK NO!!!! My sessions were back in the 70's and 80's, my late teens & early 20's when the Beatles, Beach Boys & others in my mind started this rolling. I was laying in a tub of steaming hot water, totally submerged, with my nose and mouth exposed, droning lightly deep in my mind as possible. I can not see how anyone (TM proponets)can say there is only one right way to do things. I do think we all need help at times and diferent courses are a help…..BUT $2,5000.00. Sorry, I go with Steve. There was a time someone pumped rats with tons of peanut butter and said it caused cancer but no doctor has ever said "he got his cancer from peanut butter". My point is there and tests that conclude a lot of things not all as accurate as I we would hope. Sorry!!!! Just my little idea.

OK, OK, so all together now, "You can't learn TM from a book! You can't learn TM from a book!" I'm very tired of hearing this. I don't care whether or not anyone can or cannot "learn TM from a book," but whatever mental and physical practices you are doing when you do TM can, indeed, be described. You are not entering an alternate universe where the laws of physics are alien and you have no reference points and you become a being of pure energy or whatever and language and your mind disintegrate. I have had many very strange, wild experiences in my life and while some are more describable than others, they can all be described with a reasonable degree of accuracy I assure you (and don't bother telling me that "TM is different" because it ain't THAT different, to where it's utterly beyond all words). When you practice your TM you are doing SOMETHING with your body, you are saying or thinking your mantra (I guess), you are doing a number of actual things, ALL of which can be described in words. So, please, please, PLEASE describe it. And those aspects that you can't describe directly you can speak about metaphorically or even poetically (several different descriptions of the practice and a few personal experience stories would be nice). One way or another, you TMers out there can just explain what you're doing and I DEMAND that you explain it (I have to demand this way because nothing else seems to work). I promise not to take it as actual instruction on HOW you do TM (seriously, I give you my word) but just as a very basic description that can never be mistaken for the actual practice of it (like how you can't mistake the menu for the food, etc. - this is enlightenment 101 stuff, we all know that words cannot be taken for the things they represent by now, don't we?). What I absolutely NEED is for some brave TMer (one or two or three of them) to just come out and describe, as well as they can, what they are doing when they TM. It would also help to know, with a few examples, what was so important about having a live teacher - like, what did they help you with, when did they help you and how. Bottom line: what is the key reason why taking the live course was so special and necessary? Again, please provide at least one example. I only need to know the gist of it all (preferably with as much detail as possible) so I can evaluate TM myself against the other paths open to me. This constant obscurantism and mystification is very cult-like behavior, frankly, and only harms your "cause," if I can characterize it as such. And BTW - NO, "everything costs money" is certainly NOT a valid justification for the cost when TM is surrounded by so much deliberate mystification. I, and no other sane, reasonable human, would spring 1500 bucks, or whatever it is, for such mystery meat. No more jive, I'm beggin' ya! The only valid response, far as I am concerned, is exactly the kind of general description of the practice I am asking for and not yet more dishonest "You can't learn it from a book" mysticism. And NO, a description from a non-TM follower is NOT adequate. Has to be from an insider. I am not trying to "LEARN" it from you - I am trying to think about it in a sane, reasonable, factual manner before I can even consider learning it so that I can make my OWN well-considered judgment on the right course of action. And no amount of "scientific studies" or testimonials from celebrities can ever possibly substitute or sway me (or any other intelligent, sane, reasonable human being) - only raw facts about the practice have a chance, and only after THAT scientific studies (that always mysteriously fail to actually describe the process, incidentally), and only after that MAYBE testimonials from celebrities (I'm a big David Lynch fan, yet I still demand the right to retain my own freedom of thought!). I expect the same sort of discourse from ALL PEOPLE no matter WHAT the endeavor. And if the only response to my plea is yet more mystification then I am forced to conclude that you're all charlatans (you TM true believers, that is), a conclusion that I consider final and universal. So please, no more funny business.

hello .. I'm practicing Tm Sidhi over 17 years, you know the advanced techniques of TM ? known as fertilizers?

thank you

Thank you for this article! I found the TM site and was really intrigued until I saw the bottom line (many pages deep). OUCH!
Somehow the whole pitch felt very Scientology-like to me. A bit too polished and kind of like charging a premium for the secret recipe for air.

Thank you, again, for your balanced and humble review and suggestions. So appreciated!

There's an interesting quote from comedian Jerry Seinfeld on the official TM website, he says:

"“I’ve been practicing Transcendental Meditation most of my life. I think that does something to your nervous system. It has given me a calmness I don’t think I had at 19.”

Really, Jerry? You're much calmer now in your late 50's than you were at the age of 19? And that's purely due to TM and not the fact that you're ALMOST 60?! I certainly HOPE you are much calmer now than you were at 19!

I feel drawn to meditation, but silly me forgets most days. I will try again and thanks for the simple but effective advice. Have a great day!

Steven, thank you so much for providing a forum for this discussion. It has helped me to organize my thoughts before making the choice of which path to take. Feeling better from the inside out is one of my main objectives. After all the pro/con discussion about TM (the Google link that led me here in the first place), it is as if the clouds have parted a bit. I am more confident now in making that choice for myself. Thanks to all of you who posted informative and positive comments.

hi steven i an from india i want to know what ur coments on sudarshan kriya and sahaj samadhi meditation by shri shri ravi shankar the founder of the oganization art of living,

Hi Vikash,

Well, the simplest thing I can say about the kriya technique is:

a) It takes quite a bit of time, and;
b) It's based on the idea that you need to "purify" something

I've found that there are much faster ways of getting into deep meditative states without doing 45 minutes of deep breathing.
And, for any technique that's about "purification" the thing to look for is graduates. That is, how many people have, in fact, purified themselves from using the technique and gotten the goal promised?

Phil,

You're making a point I've often made, too. Many of the benefits people claim come from long-term meditation simply come from maturity. And, in Jerry's case, having a few hundred million probably hasn't hurt, either
I used to be a stand-up comic, and Jerry and I worked together at a gig in New Jersey. He had recently gotten out of Scientology and "into" Zen… but that meant mostly reading. I asked if he'd ever done a sesshin and he said, "I can't afford to take 7 days off work to meditate." I replied, "Jerry, you made $15k tonight… you can afford to do whatever you want." (this was in 1990 or so)

I know about some of the additional TM techniques.

Any comparisons between meditation and physics are metaphoric, not literal.

I'm friends with a number of physicists and they find the use of physics language to describe psychological or internal states infuriating. It's partly their fault, I point out, because they use common words in an uncommon way, and so later those words are misused.

For example, the word "vibration" in your thoughts, above. What does it mean for a 1 dimensional "string" to vibrate? It's clearly not the same as a vibrating 3 dimensional string, which merely creates ripples in the air. Yet people use the words to say, "See, physicists say we're all vibration!" (and then they often go on to some silliness about changing your vibration to, say, "attract" a car, or a mate, or a job).

Interesting site and discussion.

I've been practicing TM for 39 years. No I'm not enlightened, far from it. But it's been the right meditation for me. Very calming. Whether it is the right approach for others only they can decide.

I also studied personally with the Maharishi in the early 70's; I know a lot about the origins of the technique and other information generally not available (even at the websites exposing TM secrets, though these sites in some cases give a lot of fairly accurate details most meditators were never given).

My advice: go with your instincts. You have to have a measure of trust or faith in any meditation teacher or technique to begin with. You trust a source long enough to give the teaching a reasonable try.

If you get in touch with your intuition, you will be guided to a technique right for you at this point in time. Don't worry too much about this, just go with what feels right on some level, with what you are naturally drawn to.

In 10 years you may possibly be guided to some other teaching. Your intuition is the key, your gut feeling. Follow it, plus note of course if there are tangible benefits that come from what you practice (peace of mind perhaps the most important, also perhaps greater acceptance of the inevitable flow of life, the pleasant and unpleasant, of simply "what is"; plus spontaneous creativity that surprises, greater intuition, happiness) — these are the crucial factors in my view.

Best to all on their journey. All authentic meditations are techniques or processes to allow you to become aware of all that you are in consciousness; this in turn leads you ultimately to a state where you know that you actually aren't anything you thought you were, but you are in your essences an order of reality that makes all states possible. Something prior, yet all is in you.

Best of luck.

Thanks to all of you for this fascinating discussion. I know nothing of TM or meditation but I do know a good ol fashioned yogic flying free for all when I see it. And brother, this is it.

Be good.

Hi Steven,

Thank you for the information presented on this site.

Ok, let's assume that TM is the best method. But what is wrong with practising the second best?

I agree that it's better to have an instructor to teach a certain method. Maybe this can be helpfull: a link to a (or any) collection of talks which deal with the difficulties occuring while practising meditation. For instance: how to deal with doubt, which is also a natural phenomenom occuring while meditating (in the beginning stage).

http://www.forestdhammabooks.com/index.php?page=MP3s

There are also free mp3 available about the 'five hindrances' which occur while meditating, maybe it's helpfull to google this.

In my opinion, it's not important to be the 'best meditator', when just starting to meditate. Meditation is a lifejourney. The way you are able to eventually cope with the problems that arise, will give you the wisdom which give meditation it's value.

So, meditating, using the second best method, supported by talks on meditation without expected specific results to occur, is ok..

I see what you're saying but the point I originally tried to make was that the TM'ers themselves claim that TM is the absolute best form of mediation. A careful, critical reading of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's book The Science of Being and the Art of Living shows that he claimed TM was the only valid form of meditation to reach the final, absolute goal of meditation. By extension, he thereby places everyone else who does NOT practice TM beneath him. Not that I am a big fan of the Dali Lama, but that also includes him. The Dali Lama does not practice TM. In fact, if the many sources I have been reading are correct, Buddha himself practiced Mindfulness meditation - this was the form of meditation that allowed him to reach his great realizations. TM happens to be a Concentration technique, which is different from Mindfulness. So, it's not much of a reach to see how Mahesh Yogi thereby claimed to a greater realization than even Buddha since Buddha could not possibly have reached the ultimate goal using a Mindfulness technique. Not that I actually believe any of this, that TM is "the best" or whatever, it's all about responding to the persistent claim that it IS the best. Frankly, after further research and experience I am convinced that TM is exactly what some of its critics say it is - a simplified version of Mantra meditation formulated in such a way to appeal to westerners. That's why they are so keen on all those supposedly scientific studies - to legitimize TM in the eyes of materialistic westerners and thereby win more converts. Ultimately, it's just like you say, the concern is not with finding THE best meditation because such a thing really can't be done, you're better off just finding what works best for you personally. That may be TM in the end, but this certainly is not proof that TM is objectively better or more effective than any other form. There's plenty of evidence that it isn't, which is why my beef is centered on those who claim it IS objectively better and the way this subverts all other forms of meditation and any other source of wisdom that does not come from the TM camp.

Linda,

I'm curious about any other forms of meditation you may have tried. And by that I mean actual established techniques that you practiced for a long enough period of time that would give you something to compare to TM. I really think that's the only way anyone could possibly claim that TM is the "best" or "only valid" method. Not that this is what you're saying, but this is one discussion I have never heard or read anywhere - longtime practitioners of various meditation techniques comparing and contrasting the various methods from the standpoint of an insider rather than simply parroting the standard claims. Most TM supporters seem to have only practiced TM, which I feel gives them no basis upon which to claim TM is "best" or superior in any way or to make critical comments about other forms. Those "scientific studies" are very shaky grounds for such claims, I think, especially since they center around relaxation benefits for the most part. If meditation were only about relaxation then I'd rather just take a nap. I would address this same question to anyone else who commented here that they have practiced TM for a long period - what, specifically, makes you feel that TM really works for you? There has to be something tangibly different about the effects of TM that can be described. And I still want to know about those techniques, what makes it different from any other form of mantra meditation? The problem here is that when people try to do this they tend to have only practiced TM or perhaps only dabbled in other forms before devoting themselves to TM exclusively, which seems to me doesn't give them grounds for making bold claims. Not that anyone here is doing that. In fact, I appreciate the soft-sell I read in some comments here more than those shrill claims you read in the official TM propaganda. I'm totally willing to accept that TM is a valid technique, though I could never accept anything as valid if it comes from the dogmatic TM prosthelytizers.

Phil,

I was thought that a method should suit your character, which would mean that there can't be an overall best method.

This is a qoute from a well respected monk in the Theravada tradition of Buddhism (ajahn Mahaa Boowa Nanasampanno):

There are forty types of kamma??h?na-dhammas which variously accord with the different temperaments of people. Whichever method is used it should suit one’s character, for characters differ, and to teach that everyone should use only one kind of kamma??h?na may well prove to be a hindrance to some people, thus
preventing their attaining the results which they should attain. When one finds the type of meditation that suits one’s character,one should set one’s mind to begin doing the practice with a preparatory repetition(parikamma), such as– “Buddho”, “Dhammo”,or “Sangho”, one should set up knowledge of it just in the heart alone. These are not like other types of kamma??h?nas, for here one should repeat “Buddho” (or “Dhammo”, or “Sangho” ) so that it is in continuous contact with the heart and remains there until the one who repeats the “Buddho” of the preparatory repetition and the “one who knows”, who is the heart, are found to be identical. If it suits one’s character better to use the preparatory repetition “Dhammo” or “Sangho”, one should repeat it so that it is in contact with the heart and remains there until it is found to be identical with the
heart. This is done in the same way as the kamma??h?na “Buddho”.

http://www.forestdhammabooks.com/book/4/Wisdom%20Develops%20Samadhi.pdf

It's said that the Buddha taught 84,000 different practices, one to each of his 84,000 students.

So there may be something to the personalization thing.

On the other hand, it's also said that only 500 of the Buddha's students reached Nibbana… so 500 out of 84,000 is not very good proof that if you have the right practice, it'll give you what you want.

On the OTHER other hand, maybe it's possible to get what you want from meditation without having to meditate. For example, if you want calmness, maybe there are better ways to get that than taking 20-120 minutes out of your day to meditate, with the hope that whatever calmness you get on the cushion carries over into the rest of your day.

From what little I know about nibbana/nirvana from reading it doesn't sound like anything I'd ever want to experience or achieve. Not that that this (my opinions and desires, that is) matters, but it really seems to me that the furthest reaches of the search for supposed, so-called "enlightenment" - states like nirvana and samadhi, I mean - is possibly an unnatural goal, at least for the vast majority of us. Perhaps we need a few people here and there who reach it, just to show it (and the insights found within it) exists, but if all human beings reached such ultimate states then I don't see how the species could survive. Not that this would matter to someone in nibbana. Such a goal simply is not, and can not, be for everyone. We all need daily exercise, very few of us need to be pro athletes or run the Boston Marathon (I would wager that no one "needs" to do any of these things). I see it a bit like any other form of extreme possibility. There are humans out there who can do some really wild, freaky things with their bodies, stretching them to their limit (freak shows and porn are filled with them), but just because the body can go that far, should it go that far? I feel the same way about the mind and personality so the same goes for these extreme spiritual states (or whatever you wanna call them). So, yeah, if you can find your own way to get whatever it is that you feel you need then that's really good enough and nothing else should be expected on you, no matter what assorted swamis and gurus might have to say.

I do enjoy reading the posts on this forum. Discussion about this vital topic is so important, so thank you Steven. My hope is that it will inspire people to practice some sort of meditation or technique that will enliven their consciousness so that we(human beings) can function from the level of 'being' or the heart. To me that is the soul reason for practicing meditation. I think too many people get stuck in the mind trying to intellectualize and categorize. The goal is the journey, and if we can live our lives with compassion, joy, creativity and inspiration, then that to me, is enlightenment. Of course there are degrees of these emotions and my path is to expand my heart till it is completely full, blissful. So over the many years that I have been practicing TM, this is what I have gained, and I think this was the Maharishi's goal and to have it spread throughout the world like wildfire, so that we could live in a world full of peace and love. Of course this has been the goal of all the great masters since time began, so nothing new here. ~Namaste~to all you beautiful seekers!

Crystal,

Thank you for your refeshing posting. I've never understood the negativity that seems to come up around most spiritual discussions. It's like simple truths are unwanted. Perhaps they threaten the fragile illusions we build up to convince ourselves that our alienation from ourselves and from God, our attachment to our tiny lives of small joys separated by periods of persistent suffering is just fine.

I've been practicing TM for 40 years and I don't doubt that it has saved my life, as well as making me tolerable to others as a human being. Of course, the refreshment I feel after every session is pretty nice, too.

And no, folks, you can't learn TM from free instruction. You need all the details, guidance, and proper support.

David Spector
President,
Natural Stress Relief/USA

I find the arguments supporting the high fees fascinating. The analogy to PBS is thought-provoking.

However, what about those who support and appreciate PBS, but are unable to donate $100, even foe a "free" CD? Or, in this case, do not have the resources to donate $2500 (because they just shelled that out for a used car and need to buy insurance)?

As a waitress and single mom….I have to feel that the Maharishi's followers believe that poor folks aren't "worthy" enough to learn TM.

Personally, I'd suggest that those who struggle in poverty are the most in need of such training. You'd think the laws of karma would lead the TM people to reach out to the poor.

**shrug**

Kinda makes you question their motives.

Kate, When I was a TM teacher in the 1970s, we were able to give TM instruction for free in exchange for volunteer services from the student.

If they still do that, they don't mention it.

NSR, TM's main competitor, sells its program for $47 and reduces even this price for those in financial need.

We, too, don't believe that only the wealthy 'deserve' to learn transcending.

It's not the TM organization's motives that are at fault (they really want to remove suffering from the world), it is their rigid adherence to policies. Now that Maharishi is gone, they have proven able only to change minor policies (for example, the course fee is now $1500 for adults instead of $2500 for everyone). The major policies? High course fees, mysticism, unrealistic health claims, rebuilding houses so their entrances face east? Forget it, I doubt they'll change until they realize that they're shooting themselves in the feet.

David Spector
Natural Stress Relief/USA

Kate,

And don't forget, Maharishi was a Hindu and TM is really a repackaged form of Hindu mantra meditation (which I would suggest is only superficially different in ways that truly do not matter). One of the key beliefs of Hinduism - Karma - states that whatever your situation in life from birth, which includes your economic station, is based upon your actions in past lives. So, if you are born in poverty then this could be a form of punishment for past misdeeds (not sure if "punishment" is the correct word here). This is one of the key pillars that supports the horrendous caste system in India, so your suggestion that maybe poor people are not seen as being "worthy" to study TM is not without basis. Of course, I don't think you're really saying that, only stating what is a very clear implication of TM organization policies. Those who deny this with claims that there is some sort of grant program available, and how TM org is reaching out to poor kids in schools, are deluding themselves if they think this is sufficient compensation for the inequities here. A truly honest appraisal of the fees and the implications of everything around it reveals a somewhat disingenuous attitude in the TM organization and some (but not all) of its most ardent followers. The defense of TM policies in cases like this remind me of the Scientology organization's defense tactics - "Avoid any doubt and criticism at all costs." It sometimes borders on the paranoid (in my estimation). There are genuine reasons why the TM organization needs an income (all religious organizations do), so I don't begrudge them asking for money. And quality control of teachings, to me at least, does not seem a sufficient argument for their current fee structure (or anything like it). It really seems to me that TM could easily allow teachers to teach on their own, charge what they feel is right, teach for free, even. They should be empowering a great number of people to spread TM in any way they can if they really, truly believed it was the all-powerful panacea they claim it to be. Control of the fee structure is clearly a business decision, and one from a powerful religious organization that is ultimately not justified. The constant claims that you "can't learn TM from a book, etc." should not be justification for the follow-up comment that "it absolutely requires that you learn it in the exact context we wish to teach it in and it absolutely costs $1500.00 to learn it no matter what." The logic is just not there.

Kate (again),

I hate to go on like this, but another point I wanted to make (and maybe someone here can check me on this, I may be way off base but I can't help feeling this), was that "reaching out to the poor" is not, necessarily, the natural outgrowth of the religious beliefs at the heart of TM and many eastern schools of thought. Yes, it's definitely there, but the extreme goal of meditation and spiritual practice in some schools emphasize complete ego death and detachment, not communal participation. This is not exactly conducive to charity work and leads many to actually retreat from society. Only when you get into ideas like the "Bodhisattva" and other similar things, where an enlightened individual chooses to re-enter the sphere of karma and help others, do you find such thought. I would suggest that this is one of the deficiencies and dangers of many eastern schools. This idea that gurus, Buddhist monks, and the like and the ideas they espouse are somehow so finely developed that they are beyond mistakes and there are no flaws in their teachings is propaganda, impossible to accept. There is always plenty of room for improvement. So, I would not expect compassionate charitable work out of an advanced TM'er, Hindu, or Buddhist (or anyone else) any more than I would expect it out of a Baptist, a Catholic, or whatever. I keep thinking back to a comment made by David Lynch (a filmmaker and artist I greatly admire), who is a major supporter of TM, about how he doesn't go around expressing compassion all over the place. I can't remember the exact quote, but it was something like "If you go out to put your arm around someone crying on a street corner pretty soon you'll just have two people crying on a street corner." The idea here is that the point of all this is to find your own enlightenment, maybe show others how you did it, but not to get too close - help them help themselves, basically, but from a very detached, enlightened perspective, the old "teach a man to fish" idea. That's fine, and in part a good idea, but it's also a misunderstanding of compassion, a belief that it's about totally/actually feeling the feelings of others like some kind of Vulcan mind meld. I doubt you'll ever see true, grassroots outreach from the TM organization, their form of "reaching out" will always be in the form of a few symbolic charity projects, spreading the technique only in ways that do not harm their profit potential yet still make them look and sound good in a pamphlet. Like it or not, and no matter fine a beginning it may have had (I would suggest that Maharishi's original motives were not without flaw, otherwise he would not have offered a simplified, re-named version of an ancient Hindu practice as if it were wholly new, unique, and only available from him), TM at this point is mainly a LARGE ORGANIZATION. It's probably controlled by a board of directors, and someone within the organization (perhaps a few someones) is making a lot of money. Of course, they're going to keep a tight grip on the cash cow and not give anything away for free (or even cheap). This doesn't mean it's corrupt (some may disagree), but it does, indeed, mean it's not pure. So, yeah, I think it's not a natural conclusion to expect a vigorous "reaching out to the poor" from the TM organization.